29 January 2010
E&OE
GRANT GOLDMAN: I've got the Agriculture Minister, Tony Burke on the line right now, and I'm sure we'll get some answers from him, morning, Tony.
TONY BURKE: G'day, Grant.
GOLDMAN: So, what do you make of all this, because it seems as though to me there are farmers that have been done over here by our own Government?
TONY BURKE: Can I view it - can I talk about it in two different ways, if that's okay?
GOLDMAN: Uh-huh.
TONY BURKE: First of all, on the issue itself, this issue has been a long-running thorn among farmers, I've had it raised with me from the moment I got the portfolio more than two years ago now, and it is an issue where it actually occurred 10 years ago, or a bit more than that...
GOLDMAN: That's right.
TONY BURKE: ...well before the current Government came into play, and there have been very limited ways where we've started to be able to do something, for example, where there's some limited areas that have been deemed to be high environmental value, where farmers haven't been allowed to clear in the box gum woodlands we've started paying farmers for stewardship fees.
So I'm not going to pretend that's a nation-wide solution, it's not, it's a small area where we piloted to see how stewardship payments might work. Prior to us starting that, there had been nothing done about this at all.
GOLDMAN: Well look, the Coalition were up to their ears in this, that's for sure, we heard one yesterday, I've been hearing lots of stories where proper compensation wasn't paid, and sometimes not at all, and I had my doubts about that, I said, how can you have a country that would take away a farmer's, well, livelihood, and say shut the gate, you're out?
Well, it has happened, we spoke to a land owner, previous land owner, in the Bingara area, who had a property there since the 1800s, through the family, and all of a sudden he was given four days to walk off the land, four days to walk off the land. They got the cattle off, closed down all the pipes, tied everything down, took off what machinery they could, but there were sheep there. The authorities came along, grabbed the sheep, and took it to the Bingara tip, the sheep, to the Bingara tip, and shot them. I mean, that's almost Communistic stuff, isn't it?
TONY BURKE: That's an extraordinary story, I'll make some enquiries about that.
GOLDMAN: I'd like to know more about that one, and there are others that are kind of similar. Peter Spencer's one of course is one that we all know about, where he was offered some compensation, but it was not nearly enough, given the value of the property.
TONY BURKE: Yes, I've got to say on this one, your program today is one of the first times that I've done an interview about Peter Spencer, and there's a reason for that. I think politicians have to be very careful when someone engages in an act of self-harm.
GOLDMAN: Yes.
TONY BURKE: If there's one problem we've got in the bush, wherever you go, whenever I attend a community meeting, there is someone there with a recent memory of a suicide, or an act of serious self-harm.
GOLDMAN: Yes, because we've got farmers who have reached the end of their tether, you see Tony, because I'm from the bush, I've lost three family members, who said, I can't take it any more, I can't do this, I can't fight the banks, I can't fight the weather, I can't fight the Government, I've had enough, and they've just taken their own lives, and look what they've left behind, an absolute shambles.
TONY BURKE: That's right, that's right, and this is where, when someone does involve themselves in self-harm, I think it's really important for politicians to never send a message, that that's the way to make a political point in Australia.
GOLDMAN: I think you're quite right in that, by the way, and we encouraged him to come down, and he did just that, he made his point, and now it's time to talk. But you can understand his frustration, you're talking about a bloke who went through the courts as much as he could, and everywhere he went, the door was closed, he couldn't even get a hearing.
TONY BURKE: Yes, and please don't think I'm in any way critical of the media for covering it...
GOLDMAN: I understand that, I understand that.
TONY BURKE: I am deeply critical of a handful of politicians who have changed, what, until about a month ago, was a bipartisan understanding that whenever someone engaged in self-harm, that you would never do anything that would make them think that that was a way of advancing their cause. Now...
GOLDMAN: And there were politicians who basically, well, didn't encourage it, but put themselves in a position where a farmer, if he wasn't thinking right, may well have taken his own life.
TONY BURKE: And this is where - does anyone believe, if there's been someone in a city, standing on the edge of a window, saying, change Government policy, or I'll jump, that you get politicians rallying around, saying, good on ya? Even if they agreed that the policies needed to be changed?
And I really worry that we've got some politicians, I mean one of the people who's been deeply impressive in this, and he's not from my side of politics, but you referred to him earlier, and that's Tony Windsor...
GOLDMAN: Yes.
TONY BURKE: …who has kept a very strict line on all of this.
GOLDMAN: And not only that, he's being very honest about what has happened, in both sides of the House, you see? And that's the kind of observation I want to hear.
TONY BURKE: Yes, and I've got the deepest respect for that bloke, we'll disagree on a lot, but I've got the deepest respect for him.
GOLDMAN: All right, so we've got the march on Parliament House, for farmers' rights, and the Native Vegetation Act, maybe it has gone too far, maybe the states aren't paying proper compensation here, even though the money is coming from the Federal Government, so what can it achieve next Tuesday?
TONY BURKE: Well I rang Charlie Armstrong yesterday, the head of the New South Wales Farmers' Association, and I explained to him, because in their media release, and the way they promoted this on their website, they've linked it directly to an action of self-harm, then I just can't, of myself, have anything to do with the protest itself that day. The moment the protest is over, Charlie Armstrong, and some of the people from New South Wales Farmers, will be in my office, talking through some of the issues.
But I've said to him, it's got to be - the protest has to be concluded, if you had - and I'm somebody who, when someone disagrees with me, I'll walk straight in the door, and have a conversation with him, but I really think it's important that both sides of politics take a bit of a deep breath, and make clear that if someone's hurting themselves, we don't say, good on you, you're a hero.
GOLDMAN: I think you're dead right there, and that's the right move. But as far as farmers are concerned, they're doing it tough as it is, but to have their properties locked up, or part of their properties locked up so they can no longer work it, in other words, take their livelihood away from them, that needs to be seriously looked at.
TONY BURKE: Indeed, and that's why we're having the conversation. At the same time, let's not pretend that that's been the story on each property, not every property is advanced by clearing, there are many properties where, if you did go further with clearing, you'd actually wreck the soil, there's, you know, a whole lot of the Landcare work that's been aimed at revegetating, and there's been an improvement on the asset on that.
GOLDMAN: Do you know what I've noticed over the years, a lot of politicians aim up at farmers like they're - well, they're people who are going to do serious damage to the land. I'm here to tell you that most of the farmers I grew up with, were greenies, what you'd call greenies these days, they care about the land that much, they want to make sure that that property is available and workable, forever.
TONY BURKE: And can I tell you, I mean as you know, I spend a lot of time out on peoples' properties, it always goes in this order. First thing they want to show me, when I visit their farm, is their production size, what their production systems are, what they're doing there, some of the new technology or machinery that they've got. The second thing they want to do, is show me some of the native vegetation and waterways that they're really proud of, really proud of. And the third thing they want to do, is give me a cup of tea, and have a conversation.
GOLDMAN: That' right.
TONY BURKE: But that's the order, it's almost the same, without exception, on every property. So I think to presume that in every case, this is about reducing land value, is probably wrong. There are situations which have been hit in a very tough way, and they're conversations that should have happened a decade ago, and we are now having those conversations.
As I say, the box gum woodland stewardship payments, it's not an answer to the whole thing, it's a small pilot, but what we're doing there is we're saying, it's not just that you've lost some of your land there, you're actually putting a lot of work into making sure that it's being well looked after, that you're not getting weeds there, that some of the native birds are coming back, and that's an appropriate thing for Government to give you a contribution towards.
GOLDMAN: Okay, well let's talk about the investigation, if you're going to lock up the farmer's land, the proper restitution must be made, so that he can move onto other areas, perhaps.
TONY BURKE: And I mean we're in territory now where there's a direct case against the Government at the moment, so I've got some limitations in terms of the legal case, and what I can say there, only to offer that it's been around a long time, we are now, for the first time, paying some stewardship payments in some areas, it's a pilot, we're doing it to see how it works, it's not a total, complete answer to what everybody's going to want, and the frustration that many farmers feel on this, has been raised with me around the country, particularly in New South Wales and Queensland, long before the Peter Spencer project...
GOLDMAN: Just on the Queensland matter, there's been a lot of talk about something called the Brigalow Corporation, what do you know of that?
TONY BURKE: Oh look, I don't have the latest in front of me on that, so we'd have to...
GOLDMAN: Well, there are people who want to tell me that the Brigalow Corporation does not exist, but we have evidence that it does, and it has some pretty strong laws attached to it, and strong capabilities for Government to do things to property owners.
TONY BURKE: Yes look, it's a conversation we'd have to have on another day...
GOLDMAN: Okay, well I'll get you to take that on notice, maybe we'll look at it some time.
TONY BURKE: Yes, no, no, I'm on here often enough, but we'll get to have a chat.
GOLDMAN: Yes, good to talk to you. Thanks, Tony.
TONY BURKE: Okay, thank you, see you.
GOLDMAN: Right. He's a good man, you know, despite the party policies, Tony Burke cares about the bush, the Agriculture Minister, Tony Burke.
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